rust removal

[drivesitfar]

LIS: GOOD MORNING!

it's always a pleasure looking at the pictures you post of your shop or kitchen. WOW!!

i'm guessing you painted the Baldor eye shields red? i just found my almost new pair I kept when I sold my 1/3 HP Baldor years ago and wondering if you think i could mount them to my 3/4 Baldor buffer and how?

i'd also like to hear how your new belts work on your Burr king

CHEERS!!

 

[lis2323]

DRIVES. Yes I painted the eye shield red. The machine was purchased used and I wasn’t too concerned with OEM colors. I installed new laminated glass at the same time.

For belts I have always used made in Germany Klingspoor and had good results. For my handheld angle grinders I use Weldcote discs and flap wheels. They are coming out with a line of belts also I am told.




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[Jayman17]

DRIVES. Yes I painted the eye shield red. The machine was purchased used and I wasn’t too concerned with OEM colors. I installed new laminated glass at the same time.

For belts I have always used made in Germany Klingspoor and had good results. For my handheld angle grinders I use Weldcote discs and flap wheels. They are coming out with a line of belts also I am told.




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Lis, I have seen photos of your shop in this thread and other threads on GJ. Just wanted to say what an awesome looking shop you have, well equipped and very organized not to mention spacious. Is it used for business or just a hobby space?

Jay

 

[lis2323]

Lis, I have seen photos of your shop in this thread and other threads on GJ. Just wanted to say what an awesome looking shop you have, well equipped and very organized not to mention spacious. Is it used for business or just a hobby space?

Jay

Thank you, Jay. I am a retired farmer and this is my hobby/ therapy space [emoji2]


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[Toold_up]

Here is a tip to stop your evaporust from evaporating. Add water. The water separates and rises to the top of the container and prevents the evaporust from dissipating. When you use it make sure your parts go below the water level. Simple and cheap.

I like to use white vinegar. To prevent flash rust dump the parts into a bath of distilled water and baking soda after removing from the vinegar. Simple and cheap.

Where can I buy arbors for these radial brushes? I just picked up a box of replacement brushes but need an arbor for the grinder. I can machine one up, but it's probably more cost effective to just get an arbor.

 

[macgee]

Where can I buy arbors for these radial brushes? I just picked up a box of replacement brushes but need an arbor for the grinder. I can machine one up, but it's probably more cost effective to just get an arbor.

Excellent question, when you find out please let us know.

I'm looking for them as well. Milling up a proper arbor for these, that is similar to the plastic 3M ones would be time/cost consuming.

 

[Toold_up]

Excellent question, when you find out please let us know.

I'm looking for them as well. Milling up a proper arbor for these, that is similar to the plastic 3M ones would be time/cost consuming.

Here is something on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-Flange-...939739?hash=item547e0b8f9b:g:TeoAAOSwWi1gAhLD

I have a 3" chunk of Delrin that I could make an arbor out of. Or maybe use UHMW... Simple male and female flange with a hex to tighten the parts together.

Can you separate a factory arbor?

 

[macgee]

Here is something on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-Flange-...939739?hash=item547e0b8f9b:g:TeoAAOSwWi1gAhLD

I have a 3" chunk of Delrin that I could make an arbor out of. Or maybe use UHMW... Simple male and female flange with a hex to tighten the parts together.

Can you separate a factory arbor?

Yes, those look like the right ones but @$24 ea in bulk, they're not cheap and doesn't say if it includes the needed shaft size adapters seen in my last pic below.

Here are pics that I just took of one taken apart. Have to say the fit and balance of these plastic arbors are really good. There has to be a cheaper source for them.

I will post soon on how to clean these as its easy and very beneficial after there's **** build up in the wheel, really extends the life of them. Something you cant really do easily or as well with a wire wheel.

 

[lis2323]

I will have to look into the bristle brushes. I only seem to see 6" for bench grinders yet apparently arbor adapters are available for 1" shafts !(?) 8" would be nice for a 3/4 HP machine.

I tried a 3M Scotchbrite belt today for the first time. Worked okay for oxidation on this piece of brass.




(Maroon) medium grit on the machine. Fine grit is blue in color....




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[macgee]

I will have to look into the bristle brushes. I only seem to see 6" for bench grinders yet apparently arbor adapters are available for 1" shafts !(?) 8" would be nice for a 3/4 HP machine.

The 6" can accommodate a 1" spindle and one thing to remember that these wheels expand to a bigger diameter when spinning, it's not a 2" expand but more than a wire wheel would

Here are some quickly done examples on the fly using just the Radial Bristle brush wheel and nothing else, oh wait; I did use a light wire .008" wheel really quick and very lightly to remove some of the heavy crust but not texture the metal, just brushed the side of the wire wheel. I took the pic of the rusty part, walked in, used the wheel and walk out to take the after pic.

The Whole process from start to finish took no longer than a 1-5mins to completely finish, no evaporust of anything else was done, no cleaners, no wiping down. I just used the 220 grit and then finished with the 400 grit version wheel then took the pic.
These were badly rusted from ammonia overspray last year (don't ask) and decided to clean them up yesterday, the key part to look at is the lack of paint removed in the immediate areas that were wheeled hard into to reach and the ability to reach into the nooks and crannies like the rivet area on the side. The pneumatic ******* still hold air, no leaks and no issues, now work as they should. I was lazy and did not take them apart, just went for it.

There will always be pitting left that the bad rust ate away but the key is not to remove or damage the good metal which vinegar and wire wheels can both do.

 

[lis2323]

@macgee thanks for the demo. What size machine are the wheels on and how many stacked wheels do you have per arbor?


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[macgee]

lis2323,

I'm using one (single stack) on a 3/4HP long arm buffer machine and two (220 & 400) single stack on a 1/2hp slow speed Baldor, The slow speed one is my primary. They're sold with 7 sheets of the radial wheels sandwiched into one mandrel arbor.

When I saw Toold_up's post, it got me looking into the leftover box of spare wheels and found a horrendously (comically) bad, waste of money, performer knock off that is wider that I bought on Aliexpress to try out. I checked and that arbor accepts the 3M wheels and was able to stack 12 of the 3M's together.

To be honest, the jury is out on going wider, When I got them several years ago, I was first bummed they were so narrow but finding it actually very useful to help get into all the small nooks and crannies and it really helps avoid hitting spots I don't wants touched like paint......etc. These are more finishing wheels, not the macro mass crud removers like a wire wheel. Thats the nice thing of these wheels, they fill a big gap between buffing and the jump down to all the typical coarser grits.

Here's pics of the 12 layer on the china arbor laying next to a stock & orig. 3M wheel. The crappy china ones in purple (there really bad, total waste till now). Buying the box of 3M replacement wheels on ebay makes a lot of sense if you can find some cheap arbors like my AliExpress.

**EDIT: Here's some oxidized light rust pieces from a Starrett surface gauge, only used the 220 & 400 Radial Bristle wheels, nothing else and maybe 30 seconds - 1 min of wheeling. Look for any texture patterns left by the wheel, it's very light and way better than any Nyalox or Wire wheel. The harder the metal, the finer the finish is.

 

[Toold_up]

I just ordered a 400 grit from Zoro. When I want to use 220 i'll disassemble the flange and swap out the discs. If that gets irritating then i'll machine a flange as a spair. Or maybe buy a used one on ebay for cheap. Depends how irritating the process becomes... Then again I should just buy a new 220 and when it's used up just replace the discs. Yeah that's the ticket!

 

[lis2323]

@macgee

Thanks for the excellent explanation. [emoji481]


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[ThatGuyFromTexas]

I'm a big fan of electrolysis as well, but what I've found to be more thorough is a molasses soak. It takes 2-4 weeks for average surface rust, but man does it get everything, and a nice dark finish. It does this through fermentation, so it works faster in warmer weather.

It's 1 part molasses to 9 parts water. You can get it at a local feed store or greenhouse. I would say, get a mosquito dunk and a ventilated lid. Also, keep it outside. I did this before I got an electrolysis setup and had a pile of stuff in there, so don't be afraid to fill it up.

 

[drivesitfar]

Mac: great work on those items you spiffed up.

did I read that you put 12 wheels on at once cause they will fit on one side of your buffer? not only can you use different grits of these radial brushes you can also set it up at different widths too. they sure do a nice job and it would be nice not to have wires flying at me once i set mine up.

just curious since there are so many brands and prices are all over the map is a certain brand better than others?

TGFT: I read about Molasses years ago and ended up using vinegar and wire wheeling as my go to cause my shop was not vented where I thought it would be ok to set up an E tank for 24/7 use. glad to hear you have had good results with molasses. is there a difference between molasses at feed store and grocery store or just cheaper at feed stores?

 

[RTM]

Ok guys, I have stupid grinder question about using the radial disks. I have a1725 grinder, with the threaded adapter already installed. Problem is there is only one of those large washer like things. I’ve always called them arbor flanges, or flange washers, none of which show up in EBay or MSC searches, except at $400.

What is the correct term for those thing? I will poke about the grinder thread, see if someone has already given the name.

 

[drivesitfar]

RTM: you might also make this post over on the Block grinder or vintage grinder threads cause i'm sure Exmaxima or Torqueman or one of the other guys that frequent those threads know the correct name for them. I call them the same thing you do and once I find all my grinders and bits and pieces I might have extra, but not sure at the moment where they all are.

good luck!!

 

[macgee]

Ok guys, I have stupid grinder question about using the radial disks. I have a1725 grinder, with the threaded adapter already installed. Problem is there is only one of those large washer like things. I’ve always called them arbor flanges, or flange washers, none of which show up in EBay or MSC searches, except at $400.

What is the correct term for those thing? I will poke about the grinder thread, see if someone has already given the name.

RTM,

$400 seems like a perfectly reasonable price to pay, you should have jumped on that especially if it was for 4 washers

Send me a PM with the spindle arbor dia. size you have and I'll look in my spare pile for some when I get back in my shop, I'm off sailing tomorrow. I can also make a couple on the lathe if you're not in a rush.

Here's an option that could save you around $390+/- depending on your mood. I'm assuming you only need two washers and not four for dual spindles?

There's probably cheaper elsewhere but getting light minimal items now a days like this mailed is getting expensive.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=grinder+washer&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

I casually looked on ebay and came up with all kinds but nothing cheaper, correction: I found items less than $400, FYI: If you need a washer for your meat grinder, you'll have no problem finding on ebay.

 

[RTM]

Macgee

Thanks for the clues and the offers. I was surprised to see only 2 different offering in 1/2" size, but now that I have the key word, I will check a few more places. If I completely strike out, I may take you up on your offer to dig through the spare pile.

 

[Shiftless]

Here is another example how fantastic that 3M Radial Brush wheel is. Thanks again macgee

Mine is red and 220 grit I believe.

I’m restoring a Columbian C 43 1/2 vise that sat in an unheated garage for more than 50 years. The old guy died and his grand daughter’s husband didn’t want it and was helping with the garage sale. He and I got it unbolted from the bench with tools that were laying around at the sale. The bolts and nuts were square headed. I paid his $25 asking price.

Here is the swivel lockdown lever assembly before and after hitting it with the 6 inch radial brush wheel.

Before buffing, I straightened out the handle by laying it on a piece of train track and tapping it with a 16 oz. ball peen hammer. I found that if you hit the handle squarely with the hammer it doesn’t leave any marks that won’t polish out.

 

[Fretters]

That appears to work a treat.

 

[Shiftless]

That appears to work a treat.

Right O
Flip the switch to on, hold the piece next to the wheel and Bob’s Your Uncle.

 

[Jayman17]

Shiftless, was that done with just the radial disc or did you soak in evaporust first and then hit the disc? Looks great!

Jay

 

[Shiftless]

Shiftless, was that done with just the radial disc or did you soak in evaporust first and then hit the disc? Looks great!

Jay

Thanks.
I’m still amazed at the finish I get from that wheel.
No Evaporust
The brownish crust disappeared instantly when it went up against the radial brush wheel.

Of course, your results may vary. If the piece is pitted from rust, the red wheel won’t remove pits but you will end up with shiny pits!

 

[d42jeep]

One of the tools that Shiftless picked up for me on Saturday was this rusty New Britain 1/2” drive ratchet. An evaporust bath and selective polishing with the 3M disk and it now looks like this.
-Don

 

[drivesitfar]

nice work on the ratchet. do you also take out the innards and clean up and regrease or were they ok even though it was a rusted mess outside?

 

[d42jeep]

nice work on the ratchet. do you also take out the innards and clean up and regrease or were they ok even though it was a rusted mess outside?

I took it all apart before the evaporust treatment and reassembled it after cleaning all of the individual pieces. Even though I have a few of those ratchets, it was the first one I had taken apart. They are usually pretty bulletproof. Here are the ones in my WW2 toolsets and my double knurl 1/2” drive socket set.
-Don

 

[macgee]

Nice Jeep and Shiftless

Glad you're liking them. Been feeling a little nervous after recommending them as I haven't heard too much feedback yet.

I have a bunch of Jacob 16N & 14N Super chucks I'm about to restore, its going to take a little while to complete as I'm swamped with a bunch of other projects but they will get a fresh bath of degreaser in the ultrasonic cleaner, then Evaporust, inspected/serviced, dressed up with radial brush wheels and then bench test them for runout with new arbors. I wont know if any of these are still good till after degreasing and bench testing.

In the mean time, Lets see what other items your doing to de-rust and clean up?

 

[d42jeep]

I had a duplicate of this wrench so it wasn’t a big risk to experiment with using the 3M 220 wheel on it. Here are before and after pictures.
-Don

 

[zippy97]

I've used electrolysis a lot. The results can be amazing. I bought a 120VAC to 12VAC transformer for about $10, then got a bridge rectifier for $4 to change the AC to DC. Wired in a fuse and got some old battery clamps.

Here are some rear brake cylinders that had sat in the mud under a 1953 Chevy for 30 years. The left one is untreated, and on the right is the one that got dunked for a day and a half.

Here is a parking brake cable end w/ bracket. Same thing--sat in the mud under the '53 Chevy for 30 years.

Before:

After:

Hi Roberts. Were these Chevy parts usable once you got the rust off of them? I realize you posted this a couple months ago, so I'm sorry if it's rude to reply to old posts. I'm new to the forum.

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[macgee]

Looks good Jeep, And I don't see any pattern left by the wheel?

I did get around doing a bunch of stuff today including the six super chucks (seen in above post^) and a 4" Cardinal Speedy vise restorartion. Here's the first chuck (8-1/2N Super) that I used to test the cleaning solution and process before I tackle the big 16N's.
Came out great, very happy with its performance. A long soak in (Simple Green) Extreme Aviation cleaner in a hot Ultrasonic cleaner, then a quick soak in the evaporust as it was toasty hot and a fresh bath, rubbing alcohol rinse, then the 3M wheels (220 & 400). Just now waiting for a new arbor to test runout. If it measures well, I'll continue cleaning it up wire needed.

 

[Shiftless]

macgee:
Those parts came out great! Good work.

All:
Here’s some more evidence of how well those radial brush wheels work.

I picked up a Columbian C43 1/2 at a local estate sale on Saturday.

I stopped on the clean up of the handle to take a picture for this thread. I cleaned about an inch that you see in about 10 seconds. At 220 grit it’s certainly not a mirror finish but certainly suitable for handles going onto my repainted old vises.

As you can see in the last pic, the dings on the handle are still there but shined up. Some guys looking for closer to perfection just make brand new handles. You could turn the handle and reduce its diameter by maybe what... 5 or 10 thousandths?, and remove most or all of the dings and then polish.

Needless to say, a 6 inch wheel can’t get into the tiny areas near where the handle goes through the nose. I polished those by hand with some emery cloth. But a tiny wire wheel or brush on a Dremel tool would work too.

 

[d42jeep]

Macgee

Thanks for the clues and the offers. I was surprised to see only 2 different offering in 1/2" size, but now that I have the key word, I will check a few more places. If I completely strike out, I may take you up on your offer to dig through the spare pile.

I have these lying around if you still need them
-Don

 

[csp]

I had a duplicate of this wrench so it wasn’t a big risk to experiment with using the 3M 220 wheel on it. Here are before and after pictures.
-Don

I hope that wasn't cadmium plated.

 

[ThatGuyFromTexas]

TGFT: I read about Molasses years ago and ended up using vinegar and wire wheeling as my go to cause my shop was not vented where I thought it would be ok to set up an E tank for 24/7 use. glad to hear you have had good results with molasses. is there a difference between molasses at feed store and grocery store or just cheaper at feed stores?

I'm almost certain they're just cheaper at the feed store. I actually used some from a plant nursery when I did it.

The main issue with that stuff is the smell and mosquitos, but you can grab a mosquito dunk. Also, it drowned a couple of mice, but it's great for your lawn after the fact, just dilute it a bit or water it in.

I've just been reading about those brush wheels and I need some to try

 

[drivesitfar]

JEEP: ARBOR SPACERS is the name RTM was looking for and yep $400 was just a tad steep for them.

TGFT: thanks for the molasses tips again and glad to hear after you are finished adding a bit more water and putting in your flower bed or lawn is ok.

Mac: great job as per usual. how did the chuck(s) work?

 

[d42jeep]

I hope that wasn't cadmium plated.

I deal with cad plated tools daily and treat them with utmost respect. I may be the most frequent nagger about the dangers of airborne cadmium on the GJ, if you check my previous posts on the subject.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Here is another project that combined the 3M 220 wheel and evaporust. I buffed first and then did the evaporust, just as an experiment. It seemed to work out okay. After the pictures it got a rubdown with Fluid Film.
-Don

 

[macgee]

Looks good Jeep,

Have to say its a little of a trial and error for each item, a lot depends on the rust amount and type of finish and hardness of finish.

The Evaporust works much better when knocking the big crud of rust off item first that would take a long time in evaporust to dissolve; also degreasing the items as much a possible before evaporust as the grease will become a stop barrier for the evaporust to get through.

If you have big amounts of crud and rust, then a soft thin wire wheel or brass brush works best, just don't push in hard and try to feather items into the corner side of the wire wheel to help avoid pitting in item from wire needles hitting dead on. I also rinse the the items in rubbing alcohol right after evaporust to remove any gunk left that will effect the Radial bristle brush wheel.

Today, I did a bunch of items and several Starrett surface gauges, they were badly rusted and needed a bath. I hate doing it as I love the Bluing/Browning on the finish of these when in nice shape but there's no way to keep it and clean them up to be used again; that beautiful finish comes off so easily, even just using a de-greaser and rubbing alcohol will remove it. I then lap the bottoms to 6 microns.

This is another project I'm working on, long way to go but as photo above in post #192 shows, they're coming out pretty nice but still waiting for the arbors to arrive to test runout to determine if they're still good or not.